We have two options here. Time to choose.Update.
Update.
one Polish blogger translating Mr Dziekanski pleas: "I want to get out, help me find the way...Police! Police! Can't you help me?"
h/t Getting it Right
We can allow death of Mr Dziekanski to be investigated by the police, only.
There would be some tsk tsking by the force, someone may be suspended, and someone may get fired. I won't be holding my breath on that. I like breathing.
Or, we can start demanding an independent and unbiased investigation. We can demand that the RCMP step aside, and that a PUBLIC investigation is launched with non partisian individuals from all walks of life. Not Harper Cronies. Doris Stockwell would have to shut up, and just let it go too. No interference from the "safety minister" None from the PMO.
We can demand that tasers be shelved until the end of such an investigation. No more deaths and injuries are to be tolerated. No more power trips. Even if they hold an independent investigation, it is then going to be up to us, to keep it in the public eye. Past the news cycles.
We can use facts and figures when we let them know what we want.....no, what we expect. We pay the wages, we are the Government. We are the people.
They work, for us.
We can tell them, and we have to.
Will you?
Canadian MP's....Where to send your letters.
Write to every paper, local or National.
We need to address the corporate media. Their reports in this tragedy have been slanted, and meant to cause confusion and doubt. The best report was on CBC last night. They actually asked questions, and made Mr Dziekanski appear human. Lost. Scared. Unable to communicate. The video, should do the rest.
Just to show you? This is a US CBS news report on the incident, this is the media at work.
VANCOUVER, British Columbia (AP) -- A video that was shot be a fellow airport traveler in Vancouver, British Columbia includes the final moments of a Polish immigrant's life.
The video, released by Canadian officials, shows police using a Taser on Robert Dziekanski shortly after they encountered him at the airport on October 14th. The 40-year-old man began to act erratically when he didn't find his mother in the baggage area, a secure area she could not enter.The video shows him building a barricade of chairs and a wooden table before police arrived. During the confrontation the officers are told by someone that the man only speaks Russian. He kept gesturing to his luggage while walking away from a counter. Police then fan around him and use a Taser stun gun on him a number of times. Finally, he is still.
A coroner's inquest has been called, and police are also investigating.
How much can you get so wrong? I cant even fucking begin!!!!
This is what they will all do too. Are we going to allow it?
There are some people who have blind faith in the RCMP, they believe that the RCMP are beyond reproach.
This is the road to perdition. There are bad apples in just about every vocation. ( even the church) But no one gets a pass. Every life is important. No needless senseless death can be ignored.
Are we as a a society that desensitized, that we actually believe that a certain number of people are expendable? Some are just simply going to have to die, so that "justice" can be meted out?
Do we have to look the other way in order to for law enforcement to do their duty?
Ask a cop.
A good cop would like to see all the facts known, to protect the public they are duty bound to work for. A good cop, does not see us vs "them". A good cop would know that an investigation is a positive development, because they would also realize that the law applies to them as well.
Ask questions. Be aware. Be empowered.
Mr Dziekanski needed some kindness and someone to listen. Many teach their kids to go to the police when they are lost and scared. we tell them they will be kind, and listen, and give them help. That the police uphold justice, and are there to help everyone.
isn't that what the police are supposed to do?
Shoot first and ask later? How many will die in the meanwhile?
Links. I am including some US links, because it seems the Harper Conservatives want to go down the same road to hell that the US is on.
Amnesty International from 2004: UNITED STATES OF AMERICA excessive and lethal force? Amnesty International’s concerns about deaths and ill-treatment involving police use of tasers
Amnesty International from May 2007: CANADA, Inappropriate and excessive use of tasers
Taser use in parking tiff investigated (On a 68 year old man)
Experts raise warning bells over Taser use (16 deaths)
'Tasering someone when they're down in handcuffs is wrong,' wife says
Tasered while asleep: no crime commited by LE !!!
Vigilante"justice" or a just society. Choose now. Im not sure you can go back.
What we want to know.
Is what Mr Dziekanski was saying, before the police arrived. In the first part of the video. Just seems odd no one has written that yet?
Please let us know if anyone understands polish. We think its important.
Powers that be, powers of three, keep me strong during this insanity......
The only thing that has been reported
ior at least the only thing I have found is from yesterday's Globe & Mail. They mention that he is heard to say 'policia, policia' ('police, police') as the RCMP approach him.
But what about the rest of what he says, clearly heard on the video, where it appears he's 'talking to himself'? Was he asking for help? A translator? Asking where his mother was?
Is it likely that Mr. Dziekanski's mother's lawyer, Walter Kostecky understands Polish? He's viewed the video. I'm curious why the rest of Mr. Dziekanski's words have not been translated and publically reported.
Was just watching a CNN report on the incident. Both Mr. Pritchard, who took the video, and Ms. Ashrafina, the woman trying to talk to Mr. Dziekanski in the video, both unequivocally state that Mr. Dziekanski posed no threat to them and the others in the vicinity, and that they did not feel threatened. Keep that in mind as the RCMP will almost certainly keep to the line that Mr. Dziekanski was acting in a threatening manner.
Everything's cheaper than it looks.
No wrongdoing
I can say with 100% confidence that the RCMP officers in this case will be cleared of any wrongdoing. From what I saw, they did nothing wrong and did not break the use of force continuum.
Its sad that it happened, I feel for the man and his family, but given his behavior at the time and the information the officers had at hand, deploying the Taser was an appropriate response based on their training.
They were faced with an aggressive and resistant subject who was not responsive to verbal communication (not his fault, but a fact nonetheless) in a very pubic and sensitive setting. The man was using an aggressive stance and had what later turned out to be a stapler in his hand. They deployed a tool which is designated as less than lethal in an attempt to immobilize the suspect in a way which would cause least risk to the officers and innocent bystanders.
Unfortunately, for reasons which still haven't been brought to light, the man died. This is not the first time somebody has died from a method that is designated as non deadly force. People have died when faced with tasers before, as well as after being pepper sprayed or physically restrained. There have even been deaths from heart failure after a simple foot pursuit. Unfortunately not everybodys body is up to handle a confrontation with police.
Bottom line is that the taser is a valuable tool which has most likely saved the lives of many police officers and even criminals. If they can take a man down successfully with a taser, thats one less possibilty of a gun needing to be drawn.
A lot of the outrage about this seems to be based on an emotional response to facts we know NOW. That the guy was a recent immigrant, spent 10 hrs in customs, spent 30 hrs awake, and was just confused and looking for his mom. Unfortunately, there is absolutely NO way the officers could know this at the time of the incident. All they knew is that they were dealing with a distraught man showing psychotic and threatening behavior and they acted accordingly to arrest him and ensure their own safety.
I think you are in
The minority. Thank goodness.
The facts they KNEW then too. Actually they knew less than bupkiss, because the killed him within 35 seconds. They never bothered to observe the scene, and then theres the fact that they were going to tase before they talked to him, observed him, or talked to anyone who was there....
Seems you missed that part.
Kill first, ask later?
I would say welcome. but....
Powers that be, powers of three, keep me strong during this insanity......
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Police officers do not always have the luxury to stand back and "observe the scene" when dealing with non-compliant, aggressive, possibly psychotic individuals. They assess the situation in a split second and deploy the proper methods based on their traning and experience.
Maybe the next time you are in a situation where you are threatened by a psychotic or mentally unstable you will allow the Police to take a step back and "obsereve the situation" before acting.
And BTW my opinion is probably the minority, yes, because the majority of the public has absolutely no idea what policing is like and what police officers are trained to do in these situations. The majority looks at the situation from one point of view and makes an emotional decision based on their personal feelings.
What you are saying
Is that you believe that the police can kill or maim, with impunity, because they MAY be threatened. (We know they were not, it is obvious to ANYONE with a brain)
that is not how the world works, that is how Blackwater operates.
If you want to pronounce those odious beliefs, that is entirely up to you.
But you will not swing anyone with the ability to reason. You will not swing anyone with a shred of humanity. You are part of the problem.
Perhaps your perfect world includes teams of death squads, most people find that abhorrent.
I think FF is correct, and you are a cop. Or were....
And this is the exact attitude that needs stamping out in the forces. If you cannot handle the job, which includes mediating, then its not the vocation you should be in.
Powers that be, powers of three, keep me strong during this insanity......
hokey pokey
The Police must have the capability to utilized a level of force that is one step above the subject which they are attempting to detain if they are going to be able to do their job safely and effectively. Its a basic principle of policing.
Look up the Use of Force Continuum. You can either google it or look in any Police College textbook. Its a basic idea that every cop learns to live by.
http://www.policetest.info/FORCE_CONTINUUM_POLICE_USE_OF_FORCE.htm
Specifically on the taser:
"Extensive training is not required, and they may be more effective on persons under the influence of PCP and other drugs who do not respond to chemical irritants. They can be especially useful for controlling non-criminal violent behavior, such as persons who are mentally impaired, or under the influence of mind-altering substances."
And it must be nice to sit at your computer screen and proclaim that they "Were not threatened!" from the safety of your home after watching a grainy video. Lets see a mentally unstable and delirious individual in your face, screaming at the top of his lungs in an incomprehensible language, taking aggressive stances against you, and clutching a blunt object, then tell me how comfortable you feel. Its easy to armchair quarterback when you've never had to face a situation anywhere close to what we are talking about here.
Apples oranges. and A right wing troll
How is this even remotely connected to this case? And to many that have occurred?
One death, is one too many. I know, hard for someone like yourself to understand....but hey.
Powers that be, powers of three, keep me strong during this insanity......
Huh?
This is connected to the case because it shows that the officers acted within the guidlines of the Use of Force Continuum which is taught to every Police Officer at Depot/OPC/College, which is the tool used to judge whether a level of force was acceptable or excessive considering the situation at hand.
BTW I'd like to know how I am the troll when YOU are the one that keeps throwing the names and labels ("right wing troll?") at me...
HAHA
Ya. If threatened. Big huge difference from Wanting to shoot the man in the airport, before they even saw the situation.
Seriously. You are so far down the rabbit hole on this one.
No one, who is looking at the vid can see what you see. Your seriously so way off. The "guidelines" you are spouting don't remotely apply.
Powers that be, powers of three, keep me strong during this insanity......